# disproving math

Ill preface this discussion by stating straightforward that my knowledge of mathematics is rudimentary at best, and my expertise lies in the most basic algebra. That said, Ive concluded that fundamental math is flawed. This observation renders the teaching of math in any educational institution completely unnecessary, and, in addition, changes the manner in which man views his world. Allow me to propose my argument.

Take a standard polynomial equation, ax2 + bx + c = 0. For the sake of clarity, well plug in some arbitrary numbers x2 + 5x + 6 = 0.

Since we know the entire equation equals zero, we can freely add the equation to itself on either side as many times as we like, since were adding nothing. Adding it to the right side, we get x2 + 5x + 6 = 0 + x2 + 5x + 6.

Since its just adding zero, we might as well do it again. Lets again add the equation (which equals zero) the right side. That gives us x2 + 5x + 6 = 0 + x2 + 5x + 6 + x2 + 5x + 6, or x2 + 5x + 6 = 0 + 2(x2 + 5x + 6). We might as well go ahead and take out that zero since it doesnt matter, so that leaves us with x2 + 5x + 6 = 2(x2 + 5x + 6).

Suddenly, we see that the left side is equal to itself times two. The equation can be written like this: 1(x2 + 5x + 6) = 2(x2 + 5x + 6), and we see that the areas in parenthesis are the same, so we can divide those out, leaving us with 1 = 2.

Oh, but wait. Heres a problem, you say? What we are dividing out is equal to zero, and therefore cannot be placed in the denominator? This is not only incorrect, but fundamentally absurd. The problem lies in the very basic principles of mathematics. In dividing zero by zero, we are not left with something which is undefined. In actuality, it is quite definable it is infinity. Division is the act of dividing a number, and just as ten may be divided by five to yield two, nothing (zero) is divided by nothing to yield infinity, since nothing can be placed into nothing infinite times. Five two times is ten, just as zero infinite times is still zero. Furthermore, any number divided by zero is not undefined, but instead equals infinity, since nothing may be placed into any amount an infinite amount of times.

Math, at its crudest level, expects the user to concede that it is impossible to define zero placed into zero, and it is on this assumption that all else is based. If we fail to accept this clear fallacy, we fail to accept math. We can add x2 + 5x + 6 even more times to our equation, dividing it out, in order to make 1 = 3, 2 = 4, etc. No longer is any number assigned its own value everything is equal. Math explodes.

### 34 comments to disproving math

• scwtte

Im going to make a comment because I know you guys who know a lot more math than I do are going to rip me apart. CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM, please. I know its possible to prove this help me out.

• Lauren

Do you really think anyone is going to read this whole thing? Wellmaybe some people willAnyway, Im going to go ahead and say Youre right! Way to go!. Now come see me.

Peace!

L.

• scwtte

Some people might have some good insight on this subject.

• Andrew

Yeah Im not reading it. bf tomorrow.

• wee

• scwtte

War?

• Trey

You are flawed in your logic, because while we define a number divided by 0 as infinity; infinity itself is undefined. The basis of all math is addition. And no numbers than can be derived from 1 added to itself or added in any concrete manner can ever actually reach infinity. If you are trying to disprove math using a formula, break it down the simplest parts, and you will see that in the shorthand representations complications can occur. (e.g. x^2 + 5x + 6 is really x added to itself x times plus 5 more xs, and then an extra constant 6.) so lets actually give x a value, and since (-2 and -3 are the answers to the problem, we will use -2). broken down into parts, you get x^2 = -(-2 + -2), 5x = -2 + -2 + -2 + -2 + -2, and 6 all added together. and after elementary school, we all know that 4 10 + 6 = 0. after algebra we get the rules that tell us that 4 10 + 6 = 4 10 + 6. we also learn that adding zero to either side will leave us with the same answer. so if you wanted to add some random numbers to one side of the equation in attempt to overly complicate things, we come to 4 10 + 6 = 4 10 + 6 + 4 10 + 6. and we simplify to 4 10 + 6 = 2(4 10 + 6), but seeing as how you can multiply throught, you get 4 10 + 6 = 8 20 + 12. And these numbers are irrevokably equal. I believe the thing that you are disproving is not math itself, but the inadequacy of algebra to describe itself in full detail.

• Trey

ps walt is playing battlefield

• scwtte

You CAN multiply through once you reach 4 10 + 6 = 2(4 10 + 6), but you dont have to you could instead divide each side by 4 10 + 6 (the equivalent of what I did), yielding 1 = 2. But youd have to divide by zero, which is why I tried to justify doing so.

I dont quite follow what youre saying about infinity. I understand that it would be impossible to ever reach infinity, but I fail to see why you couldnt divide out the sides and end up with what I got, unless youre implying that one side would be infinity (in which case I still think its cool that you could make any number equal infinity). Please clarify.

I found this site. The part that most interested me was this:

Again, we run into contradictions if we attempt to assign any number to 0/0.

Lets call the result of 0/0, z, if it made sense. z would have to satisfy

z*0=0. (2)
Thats OK as far as it goes, any number z satisfies that equation. But it means that the result of 0/0 could be anything. We could argue that its 1, or 2, and again we have a contradiction since 1 does not equal 2.

That makes it sound like its only out of convenience that we cant say that all numbers are equal.

• Austin

Okaythis is simple.

You actually never divide by zero. You can claim its zero because it can be simplified into zero, but 4 10 + 6 is not zero.

If you claim its zero, youd have to simplify it into zero, so it becomes 1(0) = 2(0), which is actually 0 = 0.

But unsimplified, that equation has valuewhich means you cannot just add it to one side without the other, even if the end result is zero.

• Austin

Also, Im pretty sure you cant place nothing into nothing infinte times. You have nothing to place.

You cannot place something you dont haveand you sure cant place the thing you dont have into something thats not there as many times as possible.

• Trey

infinity isnt a number, its an idea (think of it as a variable). to say that a number divided by zero is to say that zero times infinity is THAT number. it is common belief that infinity is infinity is infinity, when in all reality, there are varying degrees of infinity. take the lines f(x) = x and g(x) = 2x. when y is sufficiently large enough to be deemed infinity, the first line will be at the same proportion of infinity while the second the second line will be at infinity also, but the second line will be twice the height of the first line. Infinity is measured in rates. therefore, you could say that 2/0 = 1/0, and get that infinity = infinity. which is nominally correct, but the left side of that equation would have an infinity that grew twice as fast as the infinity on the right side..

make sense a little more?

• daniel im the bomb visit my website or facebook me! lolz

hmmm. the thing that i like about this the most is that it is very similar perhaps IDENTICAL to something that was developed by andrew, tim, daniel, trey, and scott (listed in alphabetical order by surname) during our junior? maybe senior year. yet here it is set forth as something completely developed by yourself. way to be a fucking asshole, scott.

• daniel im the bomb visit my website or facebook me! lolz

okay, last comment was a knee-jerk reaction, but everything i said in it still stands. now, however, i have actually read through the post/comments in their entirety. okay, first of all, from my point of view, you left out a very important point in the original post, scott. that is this: when you divide a given number by a relatively large number, you get a small number. (10/100 = 0.1) when you divide a given number by a relatively small number, you get a large number. (10/0.1 = 100) it logically follows, therefore, than when dividing by a number with no quantity will give you a figure of infinite quantity. (10/0 = infinity) however, im sure even this line of thinking is flawed (in part because of the fact that division doesnt really exist, its just another way of describing multiplication) but im not really sure. in any case, i think its one of the simpler ways to support what youre saying. i, however, no longer support the postulate you present in the opening article. here is why its not a fancy-schmancy mathematical proof, it just lies in the analysis of mathematical theory basically, math is a set of rules that, when followed, always yield certain set of solutions. it operates on a number of (sometimes really obvious) assumptions, such as when we write 1 it represents a sort of singular unit. another of these assumptions is that we cannot divide by zero. theres not point in assuming or trying to prove that we can divide by zero it just isnt possible, given that we follow the rules of math. it is true that IF we could divide by zero, math would break down. but math is a system that allows us to do many kinds of things, and theres no point to arbitrarily seek ways to make it fail. i dont know if the point im trying to make is really coming across. math is a set of rules that allows you to plug certain variables into certain operators and get a consistent, predictable, reproducable set of results. furthermore, it is a system that allows us to do a variety of things which would otherwise be impossible or very complicated. one of these rules is that you cannot divide by zero. if you dont follow this rule, the system breaks down. however, the system works and is an incredible tool. so there is no point in arbitrarily breaking the rules in an attempt to disprove it. sorry if there are a lot of typing errors or misspellings; im on my moms laptop and its hella hard to tell wtf is going on.

• daniel im the bomb visit my website or facebook me! lolz

finally: yeah, go see lauren! im sure shes lonely here in boring old shreveport now that the majority of her boyfriends/fuck buddies are a coupla hundred miles away.

• wee

*open high five so dont leave me hangin*

• daniel im the bomb visit my website or facebook me! lolz

on a side note: walter, were you, in fact, another of the people who contributed to this? if so, i am sorry for not mentioning you. i, unlike some people, am concerned with giving credit where it is due.

• scwtte

OK, first of all, Im pretty sure I was the one who came up with the polynomial thing, and I know that Walter and I asked some Asian dude in our computer science class about it, and hes the one who emphasized the importance of not dividing by zero. That said, I know we all spent time thinking about it but I wasnt trying to take credit away from any of yall I thought I was presenting what I had originally and that various people would come give their inputs in the comments, like so, in order to make it complete.

To Austins comment Im not really sure I understand your first comment, but your second one helps. I never looked at it from the other perspective, but I guess that logically you could either say that nothing could be placed into nothing infinite times or no times. I can see an argument for both.

Now, to Treys comment yes, Mr. Evans did a good job of explaining how one could have various degrees of infinity, but your final conclusion that one sides infinity grew faster than the other sides infinity would still make something equal something it doesnt, and still screw up math.

Daniel, your point about the division of large and small numbers is a good one and helps to further what I said. Breaking the rules of math was my point though if one could prove that an original rule of math was unsound, thered be no reason to adhere to the rest of them and the whole system would break down, as you said. You say theres no point in trying to break the rules to disprove it well then, you should be completely disregarding this entire concept, because you apparently have more respect for math than I have. And finally, what the hell should it matter to you if I see Lauren?

• wee

i dont know if i was part of that or not i dont care its drinkin time

• scwtte

hooray for alcohol

• Austin

Okaya second go at this

ORDER OF OPERATIONS!

You have to do whats in the () before you can do anything else.

• scwtte

Well even if you reduce the parentheses, at that point Id just say divide out the zeros and stick with 1 = 2. • daniel im the bomb visit my website or facebook me! lolz

first of all, i wouldnt say youre proving an original rule of math to be unsound. i would say its more like your exploiting an apparent indiscrepancy that, upon further inspection, is actually not a discrepancy at all (given, of course, that you follow the OTHER rules within the system). i dont really have a second of all; i do, however, have other things to say. its not really a respect for math that i have although, i guess i do. i dont understand if youre not getting the point im trying to make, or if im not getting that youre getting the point im trying to make. math is a system that, given one follows the rules, works. if you break the rules naturally it wont work. take baseball, for instance. baseball is a game that produces well, supposedly, entertainment. whatever. okay, lets pretend like you arbitrarily make it so that players are no longer able to be out. caught balls, three strikes; whatever, no outs. suddenly, the game breaks down. it never progresses past the first half of the first inning, because whichever team is at bat just makes runs indefinitely. mathematics is a system with rules. follow the proper rules, get the proper result. break the rules, and, by definition, the result will be mathematically unsound. hmmm. i get the feeling that i am just repeating myself. if i am, apologies im just trying to clarify something that im finding difficult to properly explain. finally, this. scott, despite our differences, i consider you a friend. now, all i ever hear about lauren sadasivan is how she hurts other peoples feelings. seriously. the only times i hear about her anymore is when she has hurt somebody else/again. therefore, as someone who considers you a friend, i feel it is my duty to steer you clear of such negative people. but im not your mom; whatever you want to do is up to you. i just seriously dislike people who consistently hurt the feelings of those i care about.

• scwtte

I understand what youre saying, but my whole point was to break the rules of the system in order to break it down. Thats all Im trying to do. You may see it as pointless but hey, I was bored.

I appreciate your concern, but theres always more to the situation than someone on the outside can infer.

• [...] OK, so a study conducted by the University of Utah suggests that driving while using a cellphone is more dangerous than driving drunk (aka while intoxicated, under the influence, etc.). This is BS for several reasons. First of all, it was an inaccurate test. Now Im not going to read all about their techniques or procedures, or pay close attention to the data collected (Ive always been opposed to numbers), but simply by having these guys perform the experiment in a driving simulator rather than on a road is going to tip them off a bit and lead to some error. I dont know about you, but I think Id drive a bit differently in a video game than in real life (GTA-style). And if I somehow mis-skimmed and they were indeed driving on a closed-course, screw you I dont have time to read. [...]

• Max

It doesnt work because while x/0=00 (00=infinity kinda brute infinity symbol) what you really need is lim(x) as x->0 which is undefined thus dividing by 0 is undefined. Also there are flaws in algebra in general and some errors in yours, which is why we use Calculus to really explain all this.

• wee

Max!!! Bringin in some closure!

Thanks a lot, man.

• scwtte

Truly, great insight. I only wish I still had the slightest academic need for math.

• fibonacci numbers

ax2 + bx + c = 0 (1)

substituting each variable, a b and c with integer,

x2 + 5x + 6 = 0 (1)

because x2 + 5x + 6 = 0, we can safely add x2 + 5x + 6 on the RHS.

x2 + 5x + 6 = x2 + 5x + 6 (2)

now i dont understand what logic is that you claim, and i quote: we can freely add the equation to itself on either side as many times as we like, since we’re adding nothing

after equation (2), anything added, multiplied,subtracted, divided on the LHS has to be applied to the RHS as well else youre contradicting to the laws of equality.

If you cant even understand the basics in algebra and yet has the audacity to put up a post like this, ptffff youre no smarter than my famicom.

• scwtte

I appreciate your use of tact, avoiding personal attacks over something so controversial as an opinion on mathematics. And you wouldnt believe my audacity, I assure you.

My whole point was that there are these (possibly) flawed laws which must be followed in order not to break math. You say, after equation (2), anything added, multiplied, subtracted, divided on the LHS has to be applied to the RHS as well else you’re contradicting to the laws of equality. Simply adding something that is equal to zero to one side of the equation and not adding it to the other side shouldnt mess anything up after all, its ZERO, NOTHING. 7=7, and 7+0=7 (you dont need to write 7+0=7+0).

But then it all goes back to the dividing by zero thing, which you must say is impossible (but I disagree). Max was right about that.

Thanks for stopping by.

• scwtte

Also, I was clearly exaggerating/being sarcastic when I said things like this will change the world or disprove math, or that I have any expertise at all. I dont really care much about this post or its concepts anymore. • scwtte

One can have an opinion about anythingeven something as irrefutable as math.

This is purely theoretical crap anyway, and the theoretical will always be subjected to peoples opinions. And its thinking like yours that will keep the perpetual motion machine from ever being built.

• Austin

You think I havent devoted all my life to the PMM? What do you think all my comics are about? Theyre actually schematics! Dont give me lip about not believing in the PMM

• scwtte

Watch the Axminster video:

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``` i dont get it new battlefieldbut why? ```